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Skyscript Astrology Forum

Jodi Arias' Birth Time

 
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linchi



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 384

Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:52 pm    Post subject: Jodi Arias' Birth Time Reply with quote

Jodi Arias' Birth Time

9 July 1980 at 01:52 (= 01:52 AM )Salinas, California, 36n41, 121w39

American homicide perpetrator who killed her boyfriend Travis Alexander on 4 June 2008 at his home in Mesa, Arizona.

Source Notes :

BC in hand from Sue Kay (email 26 May 2013), with time 1:52 am.

There exists a YouTube video about her, which orally gives her time of birth as 11:54 PM. There is no reason to consider that more reliable than the actual birth certificate.

https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Arias,_Jodi


Krishnamurti Ayanamsa, Mean Node.

Jodi Arias' birth time must be 23:54

Because ;

Firstly : Harmonic 256

Natal Mars/Saturn = Sun/Mars = Mercury = Venus
Venus is 7th house ruler shows the Partner.

And Mars/Pluto = Sun = Saturn (Exactly to this axis is the Mars/Saturn axis of the victim in Harmonic 256)

It also shows that we should look at higher harmonics because we will not see these planetary pictures with the lower harmonics.




Secondly : If we compare the horoscopes of the murderer and the victim with the Harmonic 16

Murderer Sun = Victim Sun
Murderer Mars = Victim Mars
Murderer Saturn = Victim Saturn
Murderer Mars/Saturn = Victim Mars/Saturn

One of my theories in "Microastrology" says :

"Family member’s sun position on their birth chart has to be in exact harmonic.
it applies to partners and guru-disciple also."




Thirdly :

Murderer-Lunar Mars/Saturn = Murderer-Lunar Sun/Mars = Victim-natal Sun = Victim -natal Mars/saturn

Harmonic 4096 Lunar Return

From the inside to the outside:
1. inner circle : Murderer natal
2. inner circle : Murderer lunar
3. inner circle : Victim natal
4. outer circle : Victim lunar




My theories for the murder cases :




Fourthly :

On July 9, 2008, Arias was indicted by a grand jury in Maricopa County, Arizona, for the first-degree murder of Alexander. She was arrested at her home six days later.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Travis_Alexander#Discovery_and_investigation


Transit on July 15, 2008 (Harmonic 16)

t Saturn/Node = r Sun

My Work "True vs Mean Node - Imprisonment" is here :

https://ia801404.us.archive.org/15/items/true-vs-mean-node-imprisonment/True%20vs%20Mean%20Node%20-%20Imprisonment.pdf




P.S. I have had this case in my work murder cases p 41, but with the wrong birth time. Normally, when a birth time is controversial, I check the claims. I don't remember if second birth time option was under de source notes at that time.
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey linchi!

i am a bit like you.. i never accept anything at face value! i am mystified at the time given on the birth certificate verses the time in the youtube video and would really appreciate if we hear back from the enquiry that srsedna has apparently made! thanks for taking a look at this linchi... frankly the time off the youtube video lines up much more strongly to me then the time given on the birth cert... cheers james
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srsedna



Joined: 22 May 2019
Posts: 46

Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No answer from the video's author yet, sadly. Maybe if more people ask for the source they could answer.

Besides predictive methods, what bothers me is how vanilla the natal moon is for 1:52 am, just broadly carrying a square to Jupiter into Venus, while the 23:54 moon is terrifyingly overloaded with harsh aspects to malefics. Even if you decide to ignore the aspects to Neptune, Uranus and Pluto, being between a square to Saturn and a Square to Mars is a much clearer sign of the moon representing a highly disturbed mind.
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linchi



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 384

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, srsedna.

srsedna wrote:
Besides predictive methods, what bothers me is how vanilla the natal moon is for 1:52 am, just broadly carrying a square to Jupiter into Venus, while the 23:54 moon is terrifyingly overloaded with harsh aspects to malefics. Even if you decide to ignore the aspects to Neptune, Uranus and Pluto, being between a square to Saturn and a Square to Mars is a much clearer sign of the moon representing a highly disturbed mind.


The problem is that if you look at the horoscopes with Harmonic 1 only, they are not shown in many cases as clearly as here in this case.

As James also wrote here :

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11186

Quote:
i also use a 90 degree wheel to see connections that are not immediately seen in a 360 to 360 overlap of charts



But we have same problem with Harmonic 4 and 16 also. That's why we need to use other harmonics as well. I have shown it with my works for various themes over hundreds of examples, if not thousands. It is inexplicable to me that astrologers do not want to use such a tool. We need telescopes to be able to see the stars as with the harmonics we can see the planetary pictures better.

For example here ,can you determine that he was serial killer ?

Dutroux, Marc

6 November 1956 at 07:35 (= 07:35 AM )Ixelles, Belgium, 50n50, 4e22

Belgian serial killer who made a career of kidnapping, raping, torturing and killing children.

https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Dutroux,_Marc




In order to see something, we have to look at least with harmonic 128 in this case.

Harmonic 128

Natal : Mars/Saturn = Sun = Moon = Mercury

Mercury shows the children.

The black dots show the harmonics points. With Zet software we would have to use Harmonic 256 because there are only 4 harmonic points marked.




More importantly, we can identify the killer with these techniques if the killer is among suspects. We can also determine the exact time of the murder.

For example :

Lambrecks, Eefje

30 January 1976 at 15:10 (= 3:10 PM )Hasselt, Belgium, 50n55, 5e20

French homicide victim of Marc Dutroux. Kidnapped on 8/23/1995 at about 1:30 AM MEDT in Ostende, Belgium.

https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Lambrecks,_Eefje

If we compare the secondary progressions of the murderer and victim :

Harmonic 256 (Secondary Progression)

From the inside to the outside:
1. inner circle : Victim natal
2. inner circle : Victim progression
3. inner circle : Murderer natal
4. outer circle : Murderer progression

Victim-progressed Sun = Murderer-natal Sun = Murderer-natal Mars/Saturn



Harmonic 256 (Secondary Progression)

From the inside to the outside:
1. inner circle : Victim natal
2. inner circle : Victim progression
3. inner circle : Murderer natal
4. outer circle : Murderer progression

Murderer-progressed Sun = Victim-progressed Mars/Saturn




Only if you look in right places, you will find what is looking for.
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srsedna



Joined: 22 May 2019
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Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi linchi,

I can't say I completely understand your method, but at a glance, my question is: how do you determine someone is not a serial killer? I mean, if I wanted a random, innocent suspect to be guilty, couldn't I look for more and more harmonics and midpoint connections until I get the desired result? I'm curious about the criteria you use to rule out induced results.

srsedna
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Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
Posts: 1781
Location: California, USA

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Linchi wrote:
Quote:
But we have same problem with Harmonic 4 and 16 also. That's why we need to use other harmonics as well. I have shown it with my works for various themes over hundreds of examples, if not thousands. It is inexplicable to me that astrologers do not want to use such a tool.

It's not so much that astrologers don't want to use harmonics or other mathematical techniques. It's that astrologers have no interest in research because their focus is on counseling astrology with clients, helping others with their life problems. And no one really has all the time they need for their work, so investigating other areas is left for researchers like yourself, Linchi. Perhaps some day there will be academic interest and grants for astrological research, and astrologers will start to pay attention.
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linchi



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 384

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, srsedna.

srsedna wrote:
I can't say I completely understand your method..


I see it that you have not understood because you wrote :

Quote:
.....look for more and more harmonics and midpoint connections until I get the desired result?

In my researches, I am not looking for the results I want.
To understand you should study the examples. If you still have questions, I will be happy to answer them.The harmonics, the logic behind them, to understand why these harmonics are not other harmonics like 9,11 or whatever, one should first study my work Microastrology. It is neither difficult nor easy.

Briefly I explain for the murder cases here, so that the readers can make a picture of it. We take only the harmonic points that divide the zodiac in two. Depending on the birth time we use Harmonics 16,64,256, 1024 and 4096. Harmonic 4096 we use when we are very sure that the birth time is correct to the minute. Axes (Asc and MC) are used only up to Harmonic 64. Because in the Zet astrology program not all harmonic points are shown as Nova Chartwheels, we look at maximum 5 harmonics.
If in Zet all other harmonic points were marked, we would have examined only one harmonic.

We then look for only two planetary pictures for murder cases namely Sun = Mars/Saturn and Mars/Saturn = Mars/Saturn.
In science, the variables must be as few as possible. Because astrology is also a science, in the researches variables must be minumum. That is, we have only two conditions, harmonics and the fixed planetary pictures. This is about finding the planetary pictures that are applicable forever and for all cases. We do not speculate, we do not take this time one planet then other times others. We do not take once quincunx other times Quintile or whatever. My system is not for spakulators but for those who want to proceed scientifically. We use only the rules that have been tested and proven correct with my system.

If you take the houses (which system ?) and the so-called aspects ( Sextile , Trine, Quincunx, Quintile and so on) and house rulers, you will not be able to see the forest for the trees, then you have many variables that have not even been proven correct. Then everyone can speculate as he/she wants.

Quote:
my question is: how do you determine someone is not a serial killer?

Suppose serial murderer has committed many murders and we have 4 suspects.
Only the one is serial killer who is with his Mars/Saturn and Sun to all victims in harmonc. This harmonic with victims must be present in most returns and progressions. If this is not the case, he is not a serial killer.

Now my question, do you or any other astrologer has a theory that the all cases fulfill with same conditions ?
I asked you in my post above, but you have not answered:

can you determine that he was serial killer ?
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linchi



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
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Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, Therese.

Therese Hamilton wrote:
It's that astrologers have no interest in research because their focus is on counseling astrology with clients, helping others with their life problems.


I have my doubts with the current astrological knowledge someone can be helped.
When I see some astrologers can't even distinguish wrong birth times with the right ones, it's even worse.
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Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
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Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Linchi wrote:
Quote:
I have my doubts with the current astrological knowledge someone can be helped. When I see some astrologers can't even distinguish wrong birth times with the right ones, it's even worse.

Linchi, there is a book you would enjoy reading. In 2016 Geoffrey Dean and others published Tests of Astology: A critical review of hundreds of studies (Amsterdam: AinO Publications). Of course we know that Dean is a well known debunker of astrology. The conclusion of this almost 500 page book is that little or nothing can be proved about astrology, but still the practice of astrology is helpful to clients.

As a past psychological counselor (M.A. degree in Counseling Psychology), I know how this 'pseudo astrology' works. I realized early on that we had no evidence for astrological principles, so left counseling to focus my time on the study and research of astrology.

I couldn't find the web site there used to be for this book, but it is discussed here on Skyscript: http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9145&sid=4e8e508731b43f2794f6082559a5c765

On the link above, a quote from the authors of the book:

"We stress that if your astrology has to be meaningful but not necessarily testably true, then test results are irrelevant"
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linchi



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
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Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you, Therese.

I think you have a great responsibility when you astrologically counsel someone. I would not do that. I haven't done it for a long time either.
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Linchi wrote:
Quote:
I think you have a great responsibility when you astrologically counsel someone.

Yes! And I didn't want that responsibility. Also, if we accept reincarnation as fact, we set up an energy link with every client that "We will meet again." No, thank you...

Actually professional counselors are trained to listen, sympathize and ask questions to guide the client into making their own decisions about life. (I found this process extremely boring.) But the majority of astrological counselors have no academic training in counseling. So they tend to give 'readings' based on what they see in the natal chart. This is where I shudder because there is no way to see specifics in a chart without a lot of feedback from the client. However, based on transits, timing events can be helpful.

I've had quite a number of friends or acquaintances tell me something like, "The reading (Astrologer X) gave me was terrible! He/She didn't understand me at all."
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srsedna



Joined: 22 May 2019
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Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi linchi,

Honestly, I fail to see the difference between making up new aspects and using higher and higher harmonics. Combined with using midpoints and hypothetical planets, it looks like a way of adding variables instead of reducing them. You'd have to automate your technique into a script then run it on a database of innocent people with the murderer criteria and it should come out "clean"; only there can you start to claim the possibility of determining who is a murderer.

Dutroux's tropical chart looks homicidal enough to me if we consider what the planets mean for his mind and moral sense in their traditional meaning, combined with the evil stars in his Sun and Ascendant. I can go into detail but in the Natal forum, since this is the Sidereal forum.

Best regards,
srsedna
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linchi



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
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Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

srsedna wrote:
Honestly, I fail to see the difference between making up new aspects and using higher and higher harmonics.


It is not true what you have written here. You must read if you want to write about it.

Which harmonic was used was not arbitrary, but because of the birth times. It is not used higher and higher harmonics

In my work "Astrological research Murder Cases" says :

"Harmonic 4096 for exact birth times,harmonic 4 and 8 when only birth day
known,harmonic 64 when birth time rounded."


Harmonic 4 : 1 Case
Harmonic 8 : 56 Case
Harmonic 64 : 8 case
Harmonic 4096 : 43 Case

Here it is :

https://ia601006.us.archive.org/34/items/AstrologicalResearchMurderCases/Astrological%20research%20Murder%20Cases.pdf

Quote:
Combined with using midpoints and hypothetical planets...


Again, What you have written here is not true. This shows that you have not read at all. I assume that by "hypothetical planets" you mean transneptunians. As you can see there, if you make an effort, I did not use any transneptunian in any example at all.

If I needed the Transneptunians, I would be happy to use them. And here for the two very great astrologers, Alfred Witte and Friedrich Sieggrün, who discovered the Transneptunians, I would like to thank them for their great work for astrology.
What you wrote next, I don't want to go into, because it's useless, as it turned out. If you have any example that does not confirm my rules in this topic, I will answer. Otherwise I have no time for unastrological discussions.
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