Theory Questions w/chart

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Hi everyone, I hope you're all. I have a couple theory questions and I thought I would toss it out to the group.

Here is the chart in case you want to follow my line of inquiry, basically Q1 wants to know if she can trust someone new she just met (a bit out of nowhere) and whether their early relationship will be significant, the chart is radical. Full disclosure: Q1 is in love with someone other than Q7, but that hasn't worked out.

The reason I'm asking about this is because:
1. The main signifiers are connecting, mercury has a beautiful conjunction to jupiter, and they received each-other by term and face. yay.

2. The part that stands out to me though, is that the moon and venus have an aspect (yay... or not). Moon is actually in detriment and receives venus by detriment. Venus is also combust by the sun. According to Bonatti, this wipes out the aspect. There is no loving trine anymore.

3. Venus aspects the moon and then the sun, I know we spoke in detail about collection of light and would this count to create an aspect for the moon and sun? Or, in this case, is Venus being already combust far too weak to carry light from one to another?

4. Also, I know that any conjunction with the sun is combustion, but I also know that in some cases it can be categorized as beholden. Would I normally just go ahead with the combustion or do I consider the definition of behold and does this eliminate the potential need for a collection?

5. Moon is sitting between two malefics, but not besieged.

I know that main signifiers are very important, and should be given first priority but in this particular instance I'm really interested in the other things going on with the moon, sun and venus.

Sorry for all the theory questions, I welcome thoughts! Also, if you have seen some similar charts and dont mind sending them my way I can continue to sift through the theory on my own.
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Thank you!
WJ

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This seems to be a case of return of light. https://www.skyscript.co.uk/tobyn3.html#rol

Essential dignity doesn't decide whether Moon (the applying planet) can hold on to the light Venus returns to her. The medieval masters judge this by accidental dignity. Here, Moon isn't combust, nor retrograde (not that she ever is), nor cadent. She is in a succedent house, so in theory she can hold herself OK.

Still, Moon is in fall and via combusta. Her next aspect after touching the combust Venus... is a square with Saturn?! I have a chart featuring a similarly afflicted moon. The two parties are being kept apart and they recently went through a period of intense disagreements. I think some hiccups are almost guaranteed.

A conjunction in itself can be either constructive or destructive. Personally I'd prefer to see trines. This Skyscript example chart
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/marry.html featured a conjunction that ended in a violent breakup. Of course, Mercury and Jupiter here are nowhere near that bad, in fact they look all good and friendly, and I concur with you that this is most likely a constructive kind of conjunction. :) :)

Aquarius seems to lean towards friendship and blurred boundaries, but it is a fixed sign, and the planets are still in the middle of it. If the relationship does develop, it'll likely last for some time in whatever capacity.

Amelia

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Thank you for this insight, I didn't know return of the light existed until now. In this example, the return is positive though correct? Did I interpret this correctly? So it supports the matter coming to fruition as opposed to denying it?I was a bit confused reading the reading.

I also realized I didn't even include the bottom half of the aspects!
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Q1 and Q7 don't live in the same country. That's a major hiccup I would say and Q7 is a doctor so pretty heavy work hours, that said Q7 pursued Q1, explained that he is looking for something more serious and they have been chatting.

My other theory question is if there is a block in the connection between moon and venus, and we can leave it to the return of light, do we now consider the Venus sun aspect automatically? Here, the sun, which combusts Venus is his co-sig.

You mentioned that conjunctions are positive or negative, given that there is also mutual reception by term/ face. This supports the conjunction, right?
Thank you!
WJ

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Interesting follow up on the premise on conjunctions in love horaries specifically. What stands out to me in these readings is that conjunctions rarely have a placement where they are more dignified and then reception also.

In this case both are in a good house, L5, and have dignity as well as reception in this connection.

I'm also now seeing a paragraph talking about the sun burning the other planet in a conjunction. So, is it safe to hypothesize that the sun, his sexual side is going to burn venus, which is critical to a love connection?

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewt ... 107d7e0722

Also, this stood out to me "Lilly mentions that fixed signs in romance add a lot more stability than mutable and cardinal signs. Mercury by nature is already changeful based on who he aspects. It's important to understand the planet's natural signification, the sign's meaning, the two planets together and how they are dignified or not, who is applying to whom in the conjunction, who receives or doesn't, before you can come to a decision about the conjunction itself. "

The example being mentioned is Mercury and Jupiter but negative reception. But I didn't realize that Mercury was so changeable based on who it was with and I'm going to look into that more. Jupiter is older than Mercury by 4 years, which makes sense to me based on signifiers. Jupiter also feels more mature, ready to settle down.

Tanit provided some great insights on this thread also.

My gosh, the moon and Saturn relationship is just such a difficult one (mentioned in the thread). For me it was the most painful.
Thank you!
WJ

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WisdomJoy wrote:Thank you for this insight, I didn't know return of the light existed until now. In this example, the return is positive though correct? Did I interpret this correctly? So it supports the matter coming to fruition as opposed to denying it?I was a bit confused reading the reading.
The return of light doesn't do much harm to the moon, but the Moon is in a bad shape herself. A moon in fall and via combusta, afflicted by a square with Saturn, doesn't support fruition. But given the status of the main sigs, I feel that she presents hurdles rather than denies the matter altogether. I suspected the external obstacles you mentioned. I once consulted for a Querent who had such a moon. She and Quesited were doing long distance and there were other hurdles.
My other theory question is if there is a block in the connection between moon and venus, and we can leave it to the return of light, do we now consider the Venus sun aspect automatically? Here, the sun, which combusts Venus is his co-sig.
Venus is combust and this renders her other aspects ineffective. Sun-Venus is a connection in a romance chart, but Deb thinks it's secondary, and some astrologers would say that combustion is still combustion. It doesn't really bother me in this chart; the overall picture is not bad. Again, any signification of the Sun-Venus interplay would be secondary to the Moon and the main sigs.
You mentioned that conjunctions are positive or negative, given that there is also mutual reception by term/ face. This supports the conjunction, right?
Yes; as said I think this is most likely a constructive conjunction.

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Do we toss the dice on this one?
Yes there are beautiful aspects between 1st and 7th here. And yes, it calls for good communication and friendship (Mercury, Jupiter, Aquarius). It would be nice in a marriage planner relationship (5th House)

According to Lilly, and I am not sure if we can use it here. I'll leave it to more expert comments
Signs of Long Ascension. (Northern Hemisphere): Cancer, Leo, Virgo, Libra, Scorpio, and Sagittarius. When planets apply to a sextile from within signs of long ascension, the sextile acts as a square, and when they apply to a square, the square acts as a trine. Moon squares Saturn, Mercury, Jupiter. Should we view it as a trine here!
Signs of Short Ascension. Again, Northern Hemisphere: Capricorn, Aquarius, Pisces, Aries, Taurus, and Gemini. In these signs, squares act as sextiles, and trines as squares. Moon trine Sun and Venus. Do they act like a square?

Not an easy chart to read! Would like to know how it unfolds.

Cheers!
Ouranos
Blessings!

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Thanks both and apologies for the delay, I didn't seem to get an email notification for the responses.

Amelia, appreciate your insight. I'm mostly just jotting down my points as I know I'll keep coming back to the chart.

Ouranos, thanks so much for your insight as well. I thought it was an interesting chart too. It just brought up so many theory questions from past charts I've posted.

I know that main signifiers are always the most important in horary, but the rest of the chart is odd. Question, what is: "a marriage planner relationship?" I've never heard of this before.

For the signs of long ascension/ short ascension, does this apply to the traditional ruling sign of the house it's in? I'll look this up right now actually to figure out more.

I can keep you posted on this because it's a really good friend. I would be invested regardless. One thing Q1 doesn't like already is the communication, it's a bit regimented I think. Mercury Q1 is in Aquarius, she's much more radical in her politik also (I picked that up from a chart regarding my media experience) than him. Interesting how this might unfold.
Thank you!
WJ

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What is a marriage planner relationship (5th House)
Just an idea that popped up
Rulers of 1st and 7th in the 5th in Aquarius
A relationship planned (Fixed sign), celebrated (5th House) and social (Mercury/Jupiter Aquarius)
Blessings!

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Ahhh yes, thank you so much for this clarification.

Brief update: Spoke to Q1 and she doesn't feel like they are on the same intellectual wavelength. Q1 described it as lacking depth and rather lacklustre. Mercury I read in another chart with Jupiter often changed their mind. Coming and going was the exact articulation I believe. Q1 is still trying but I'm thinking this might not happen.

Q7, Jupiter, seems to be rather fixed, slower, cautious, guarded, very careful even in their conversations.
Thank you!
WJ

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Final update: Q1 ended things this week when she decided not to respond to one of his lacklustre messages. Didn't feel any intellectual connection and Q7 didn't reach out again

That was surprisingly so fast. I know there was predictions around the situation lasting for some time or even friendship. Neither blossomed.

Thanks all for the insight.
Thank you!
WJ