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Will I Get Money From the Government?

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Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Posts: 550
Location: Outside Washington, DC

Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:58 am    Post subject: Will I Get Money From the Government? Reply with quote

I've applied for some money from the government under the covid program. My rational mind says that I won't get it. Then I got an e-mail saying that they had made a decision and that I'd get a letter in the mail soon. I did this chart.

This is an interesting chart because so many planets and the ASC are all about 24° to 26°.

Mars rules the government's money (2nd from the 10th) and is in the ASC.
I'm represented by Mercury and it's combust the Sun, which I guess show's that it's not my decision to make. The Moon is angular in the ASC. The Moon rules the 3rd house so this message is on my mind. The Moon just made a series of good connections - first a sextile with Mercury (me), then trine Jupiter (the government), then conjunct Mars (the government's money). Her next and final aspect will be sextile the Sun, natural ruler of those in power and ruler of the 3rd house, i.e., good news is coming.

There are so many connections with the ASC. The Sun and Mercury are sextile the ASC and trine the Part of Fortune. The Sun receives Fortuna by sign too. Pretty nice. Jupiter also trines the ASC, and rules the 10th house, the government. Mars and the Moon are conjuct the ASC. Interestingly, the Sun and Mercury are trine the Part of Fortune, while the Moon and Mars are sextile it.

The Part of Fortune is in the 3rd house, the house of letters and messages. This is more emphasis on good news. Though the Moon is angular, she's also peregrine and none of her contacts has reception, except reception by face with Jupiter, which isn't very much.

What is Mercury doing in this chart? Mercury's next aspect is a sextile with Jupiter (the government), then a sextile with Mars (the government's money) and this is an aspect where Mercury receives Mars by sign. Mercury's final aspect is being conjunct the Sun (messages), again where Mercury is received by the Sun by exaltation. (I think that's right. Can there be reception by exaltation? Correct me if that's not correct.)

On the negative side, Mercury is combust and peregrine. Jupiter is opposite the Part of Fortune and the contrascia of Venus is with Jupiter. Venus rules the 12th house, the worst house there is. Venus is in her own sign but combust.

I see this as a pretty positive chart overall. My problem is that my gut feeling tells me that I won't get this money. I just don't think I really qualify for this program. What do you all think?
Mark F
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johannes susato

Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1581

Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Mark,

I agree with you that the quesited money is signfied by Mars, lord of the

As Mars is just in the ascendant you could say that the money is already
'in your pocket'. And this is very strongly confirmed by the partile sextile
between Mars and Mercury, your significator, with strong mutual reception
by house and out of good houses. And these houses are in a kind of
mutual reception too, the lords being each in the other's house of heaven,
i.e. the 1st and 11th.

Your doubts could be testified by the translation of the light of Mars (the
money) to Venus, lady of the 12, but also of the 5th. Perhaps there are
some conditions as to the payment of the money, that are still hidden or
unknowm to you, or connected with your children or some vacation, for

Nevertheless, as these conditions are signified by Venus in her own house,
very probably they won't be that problem in the matter.
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Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 1178

Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Deb would classify this under a question not worthy of answering. You need only wait for the response in the mail and the horary is not going to offer anything helpful here since there is nothing to be done but wait for the response.
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Joined: 07 Apr 2020
Posts: 267

Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it all comes down to whether the positive signs compensate enough for the inherently unfortunate Moon, Ascendant and Ascendant Lord. There are obvious and significant impediments that we can't readily dismiss, though on a closer look we find several strongly redeeming features. I'm genuinely tossed between though if I really have to, I'd say yes.

I agree that a chart that does not or cannot influence action, is often a little muddy. The inability of Mark to follow whatever the chart's advice is is indeed well reflected by your combustion. (In Lilly's words, the querent will not be "regulated".)

That said, Mark's Mercury is being received into the house of the substance required and is itself in that house. This looks like a good one. According to Bonatti, the matter should perfect if (1) a receiving infortune* in the house of the substance has dignity, or (2) if it receives the Querent's planet. See Liber Astronomiae, Part 4.1 trans Hand p41-2.

In Mark's chart, both of these conditions are met.

(*Note: the very dignified Sun is combust Mercury and this renders the Sun a infortune, at least by Bonatti's definition. There will at least be delay.)

Regarding the Mars in the Ascendant, my hunch is with Tanit. I confess that I have yet to see any Mars in the Ascendant perfect matters. In theory, though, this is a classic case of emplacement + strong mutual reception with the Querent's planet. This is another of Bonatti's rules that seems to support perfection. Once, on whether the querent will receive a deceased servant's money, he said:

If the lord of the seventh [the money] is in the Ascendant, or even in the second... this is not so safe, because if the lord of the second is impeded at the time, or the lord of the seventh receives* it, and the lord of the second does not receive it, the master [of that servant] can endure loss. -Liber Astronomiae, Part 4.1 trans.. Hand, p.94.

We can flip this and say that a nice aspect with strong reception backs up the placement of Mars in Mark's ascendant.

(*Note: by "reception", Bonatti always assumes there is an aspect.)

Moon's singly receiving Venus in a matter of money isn't so bad, I think. Bonatti seems to want the Querent's planet to "receive" the money's planet. Moon lording the 2nd being put in the Ascendant also seems nice.

Since we have a combust querent - Mark you don't have to worry too much about your gut instinct. Lala Happy It is possibly not as reliable as it usually is.

I'm sorry I haven't been more helpful. I lean slightly towards yes, but to me, either way makes sense. It would've been so much easier to me if, say, Mercury was the 11th lord in the Ascendant, and not Mars.

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Joined: 28 Mar 2020
Posts: 568

Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello MarkF,
Everything looks nice here between significators except for Mars in the ASC.
Mars by nature shows dispute, scars left by the question. Out of Sect and ruling the 11th but also the 6th (Are you "sick enough" to qualify for the Covid program?)
Your ruler Mercury combust and Moon last over Mars by occultation (same longitude, latitude and declination but Out of Bound) suggest the amount might be more important than expected, of which you were unaware of when you ask your question.
And the trio Sun-Mercury/Jupiter/Moon-Mars is testimony for success.
Maybe I am wrong altogether but if you don't get it, I will reconsider my view on Mars/ASC. I don't know what could be better than that!


Last edited by Ouranos on Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:10 pm; edited 2 times in total
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johannes susato

Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1581

Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johannes susato wrote:
[...] the translation of the light of Mars (the
money) to Venus, lady of the 12, but also of the 5th.

This translation is of course by the Moon; and NOT to Venus, BUT to the Sun.

As the Sun is accidentally significator of your communication (being lord of the
3rd), possibly a warning to you (the Moon), to be very on the alert communi-
cating with the state (generally signified by the Sun), so that the quesited money
(Mars) or you won`t get damage (Mercury in combustion) in the matter.
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