skyscript.co.uk
   

home articles forum events
glossary horary quiz consultations links more

Read this before using the forum
Register
FAQ
Search
View memberlist
View/edit your user profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Recent additions:
The Life & Work of Vettius Valens
by Deborah Houlding
Can assassinations be prevented? by Elsbeth Ebertin
translated by Jenn Zahrt PhD
A Guide to Interpreting The Great American Eclipse
by Wade Caves
The Astrology of Depression
by Judith Hill
Understanding the zodiac: and why there really ARE 12 signs of the zodiac, not 13
by Deborah Houlding

Skyscript Astrology Forum

The nature of the bounds in Horary

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Horary & Electional Astrology
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Ouranos



Joined: 28 Mar 2020
Posts: 682

Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 9:30 pm    Post subject: The nature of the bounds in Horary Reply with quote

We know that the cardinal signs initiate change; the fixed signs incline towards stability, but the mutable signs offer a flexible qualitiy that can adapt to requirements and eternal pressures - they are mutable in their nature.
(Skyscript Glossary of Terms)


The nature of the bounds

"It is also necessary to observe the bounds of the signs, that is to say the planets which are lords of the bounds and to associate them in the formulation of the judgments. Take, for example, the following case: we see the tropical signs (Aries, Cancer) and we say that there will be a change; but in Saturn's bounds it will turn out slowly, in Jupiter's or Mercury's bounds soon after, in Mars' bounds suddenly and unexpectedly, in Venus' bounds with some discouragement. And if the lords are in solid signs (Earth) or they are stationary, it can only mean slowness, but if they are not stationary, if they are in tropical signs (Aries, Cancer) they will mean swiftness."
----------
Yves Lenoble
http://www.yveslenoble.com/2014/06/20/consideration-sur-les-signes-fixes/
_________________
Blessings!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AmeliaS



Joined: 07 Apr 2020
Posts: 277

Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Ouranos. Some people think that the bound lords influence the planets in a major way. I personally am skeptical and I haven't tested this out. Where do you (and other Skyscripters) stand on this?

Also, "in Venus' bounds with some discouragement." Does the author provide a reason? This is puzzling, because Venus is a benefic?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ouranos



Joined: 28 Mar 2020
Posts: 682

Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Amelia,

The extract is from
18 Giuliano di Laodicea, CCAG V/1, page. 187-188.

My own interpretation "with some discouragement" suggests more something like 'with ease or laziness, not pushing forward like Mars would do or trying to reach an agreement" if that makes sense. And I may be wrong.

What I get from his article is of course the Sign and its qualities would stand first but looking at the ruler of the sign and the bounds associated would help better qualify the matter.
I think it is part of the reception. If your ruler is in the bound of the ruler of the 7th, we have something here and looking at the planet ruling both dig a little more into the question.

And let's bring in Morin de Villefranche in Book XXI of Astrologia Gallica to better understand

zodiacal state = Sign and terrestrial state = House

Rule 20. When a planet is outside of its own sign, it provokes on thing because of its position in the house it occupies, and another because of its rulership in another house.
23. Each zodiacal sign always operates according to the nature and zodiacal state of its ruler, but not always according to the latter's local determination.
24. Each planet always acts according to the nature and zodiacal state of its dispositor. Most often it acts also by reason of the latter's terrestrial state. Finally, to a certain extent it acts also depending on its "Second Ruler".
52. When a planet is in unfavorable zodiacal or terrestrial state but its dispositor is in a favorable state, the affairs signified by the former will go badly in the beginning, but later will take a turn for the better, above all if the first planet approaches a good aspect from its dispositor. On the other hand, if the planet is in favorable zodiacal state, but its dispositor is in an unfavorable one, the success or happiness at the beginning will change into misfortune.

I could quote the whole Book but better if you have a look yourself
https://www.forumonastrology.com/foa/newmain.html
112 Rules for Delineation on the left

Best to you,
Ouranos
_________________
Blessings!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AmeliaS



Joined: 07 Apr 2020
Posts: 277

Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the info. Aha, this makes a lot of sense!-

Ouranos wrote:
My own interpretation "with some discouragement" suggests more something like 'with ease or laziness, not pushing forward like Mars would do or trying to reach an agreement" if that makes sense. And I may be wrong.


I have a chart that substantiates this:

Quote:
When a planet is in unfavorable zodiacal or terrestrial state but its dispositor is in a favorable state, the affairs signified by the former will go badly in the beginning, but later will take a turn for the better, above all if the first planet approaches a good aspect from its dispositor. On the other hand, if the planet is in favorable zodiacal state, but its dispositor is in an unfavorable one, the success or happiness at the beginning will change into misfortune.


(The part in bold type, I observe, is in line with Bonatti's teaching.)

My chart is about whether a creative project would succeed.

Jupiter the ascendant lord is in a very bad state but applies favourably to her dispositor, a strong Saturn, in his house of joy. It took the querent lots of effort, and there had been delays. The project found some level of success half a year later.

The Moon also testifies to a possible success with labour and persistence. She is square Mercury, which is in the 9th sign from the ascendant (9th as publishing/higher learning). The Moon is received by Dorothean term + triplicity.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ouranos



Joined: 28 Mar 2020
Posts: 682

Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for sharing Amelia,

I also note the ruler of Mercury, Mars in Aries (rulership) partile trine to the MC of success. Mercury in his own bound and Mars in the bound of Mercury.

Cheers!
Ouranos
_________________
Blessings!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AmeliaS



Joined: 07 Apr 2020
Posts: 277

Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ouranos wrote:
I also note the ruler of Mercury, Mars in Aries (rulership) partile trine to the MC of success. Mercury in his own bound and Mars in the bound of Mercury.


Très bonne observation, Ouranos. The Mars is even in the ascendant (and therefore could co-represent the querent/matter)!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ouranos



Joined: 28 Mar 2020
Posts: 682

Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

물론 이죠 Amelia!
_________________
Blessings!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Horary & Electional Astrology All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
. Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

       
Contact Deborah Houlding  | terms and conditions  
All rights on all text and images reserved. Reproduction by any means is not permitted without the express
agreement of Deborah Houlding or in the case of articles by guest astrologers, the copyright owner indictated