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A planet conjunct the DSC always indicate an association?

 
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maleja.rangel



Joined: 05 Apr 2021
Posts: 38
Location: Bogotá

Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2021 5:46 pm    Post subject: A planet conjunct the DSC always indicate an association? Reply with quote

Hi, I have been wondering about something and looking for information but I haven’t really found anything.

Does a planet conjunct the DSC always indicate a relationship or an association?

I’m a little confused looking at a chart I made, the moon representing the ASC was receptive to the planet conjunct the DSC. So let’s say for example that Saturn was conjunct Mercury and the Moon was in Gemini, so the moon is ruling and exalting Mercury, right? But in this case Mercury is in detriment of the Moon because looking at the sky Mercury is in Cap. Understanding this, you can’t really rule and exalt something you don’t really like because In this case the guy told me (Moon) that he hates the association between Saturn and Mercury because it’s something he doesn’t like at all at work. So that’s why I’m asking this. Does a planet conjunct the DSC does always indicate a relationship or an association? Or what other meaning can you give to this conjunction? Thank you ♥️
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Ouranos



Joined: 28 Mar 2020
Posts: 671

Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2021 5:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Does a planet conjunct the DSC always indicate a relationship or an association?

I suggest reading the 7th House by Deborah Houlding here
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temples/h7.html

Quote:
So let’s say for example that Saturn was conjunct Mercury and the Moon was in Gemini, so the moon is ruling and exalting Mercury, right?

The Moon is not ruling, it is being ruled by Mercury.
Mercury/Saturn in Capricorn suggests someone who is very rational and who would say something like 'If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.'

The Moon rules changes and here in mutable Gemini, they can get lost in details not being able to decide the priorities. He would rather prefer stick to a pre-defined game plan (Mercury/Saturn) but the Moon puts sands in the gear leading to emotional outbursts and frustrations, constantly questioning why the duck is not acting like a duck!
The solution is for an authority (Saturn) to come to the rescue and make him feel that they need his curiosity and intellectual skills to make necessary changes. And here the authorities have the final say (Saturn in rulership).
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 1186

Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My response here is following Lilly, Ptolemy and information I have gained from Deb Houlding and others in the forum.

Quote:
Does a planet conjunct the DSC always indicate a relationship or an association?...So that’s why I’m asking this. Does a planet conjunct the DSC does always indicate a relationship or an association? Or what other meaning can you give to this conjunction? Thank you ♥️


In relationship matters, planets within the 7th house are co-sigs for the quesited but angular planets in any horary are considered significant and something to decipher regarding their meaning because angularity shows intent for action in a matter, for good or bad. They are planets that can have a lot of say in any chart.

The DSC represents many things. It is an angle and the four angles signify power. It can also actually have negative meaning because it is a house that can openly attack us. For example, thieves are classically shown as an essentially weak planet, especially Mercury, conjunct an angle and Mercury deals with trickery. The 7th is the house of partners and opponents, lawsuits, change, relocation and other people in general.

Quote:
I’m a little confused looking at a chart I made, the moon representing the ASC was receptive to the planet conjunct the DSC. So let’s say for example that Saturn was conjunct Mercury and the Moon was in Gemini, so the moon is ruling and exalting Mercury, right?


Mercury and Saturn in Aquarius? I am going to assume that for my response here as an example.

Your use of receptions here is based on the modern teachings of Frawley. Traditional reception relates first to an aspect, and then further supports that aspect. For example, a trine shows "like" or "love" and reception with a trine shows a more beneficial trine and is more consistent with something like sustainable love. If a planet is dignified it can express that energy in ways that are positive, if it is peregrine or ill dignified it can be in ways that are dysfunctional or even abusive or self defeating, etc., although if its own lord is strong and receives it that can help alleviate poor dignity. Dignities always matter.

A square or opposition are not friendly aspects and even with reception are unlikely to show like or love, although they can be positive with a lot of effort (rarely). Conjunctions are the strongest aspect and do not require reception. Trines also do not require it so you could see a trine without reception that even indicates love and a beneficial relationship. Sextiles do and even with reception they are often weak.

Additionally, Mercury would be receiving Moon, not the other way around. That means Mercury likes what the Moon has to offer and it also tries to show good host behavior towards it as it is required to do so as its lord. Moon approaching from a sign of Mercury might possibly show it wants Mercury to like it and it approaches on Mercury's terms rather than its own. I normally see this as a potentially toxic placement where someone wants someone to love them but they lose sight of themselves and what they want, although since Mercury is dignified it can help make the Moon less lost. Since Mercury is not in a sign of Moon, this might be a more one-sided aspect though. Moon in Gemini lacks any dignity (peregrine) and so it wanders around lost and probably doesn't know what it wants or how to go about getting what it wants. That is a vulnerable position to be in. It looks to Mercury to guide it. Mercury has triplicity dignity in Aquarius and so it would help Moon by its lord to be less dysfunctional. If Mercury were ill dignified they would be like the blind leading the blind. It would not outright try to hurt the Moon but it would be unlikely to lead to the best relationship or would describe difficulties around the relationship to overcome.

Consider too that Saturn is here so what is it doing? Does Mercury carry its light? Does the Moon? Is it between these two planets?

Quote:
But in this case Mercury is in detriment of the Moon because looking at the sky Mercury is in Cap. Understanding this, you can’t really rule and exalt something you don’t really like because In this case the guy told me (Moon) that he hates the association between Saturn and Mercury because it’s something he doesn’t like at all at work.


Here I will assume Mercury in Cap but Saturn is currently in Aqu.

Again, the aspect is what you look at first, not reception. Reception helps further describe an aspect. If in Cap, there is no aspect and the two planets are in aversion. Planets in aversion shows two people with very different intentions and wants. The two do not see eye to eye at all and can be like strangers or not understand one another. Reception would be irrelevant without an aspect. At most you would argue the concept of generosity (this is a controversial subject) of Mercury towards Moon. Some would argue Gemini and Cap are signs contra antiscia but I would only use that if the degrees were equal distance from the equinox. And contra antiscia is a difficult connection similar to square or opposition per Lilly. They are said to "hear" one another, although they cannot "see" each other.

There is no such thing as negative reception and if someone doesn't like something that is more so the wall between them via aversion. Mercury approaching from Moon's detriment does show it is not bringing the best energy for the Moon but Cap is also a sign where Mercury is peregrine for most of the sign so it isn't a positive influence (although as lord of Moon it is required to not do harm to the Moon, it just isn't going to help it much). Additionally, Saturn at the DSC is a malefic in the 7th house of the matter. Saturn in the 7th in romance matters is difficult on its own... it can show lack of response or interest from the quesited, someone very difficult to get to know, someone that takes a great deal of time and energy to gain their trust, etc. Traditionally, malefics angular also have negative connotations because you generally don't want to give malefics that much power over a matter.


Also, consider planets the Moon applies to and separates from. If the Moon separates from a planet at the DSC it could even represent the querent. I haven't seen that but it is possible.

Lilly on 7th house matters:

Quote:
If a Question be asked of Marriage, behold the ascendant and the Lord thereof, and the Moon, and the Planet from whom the Moon is separated, and give those for the Significators of the Querent; and the seventh house, and the Lord thereof, and the Planets to whom the Moon applieth, for the Signifiers of him or her concerning whom the Question is asked: If it be a man that asketh the Question, joyne the Sun and Moon with his Significators, and make him partner in the Signification; and if it be a woman, joyne Venus and Moon, and make them partners.
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Ouranos



Joined: 28 Mar 2020
Posts: 671

Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2021 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Tanit!
How you explain the tango of the planets is very well understood and defined

Where planets have no standing, even more so by debility, fall or aversion, they simply don't know how to help each other.
It's like Churchill being scolded by a woman because he was drunk and replying: "Yes, I am drunk, but you are ugly. Tomorrow I will be sober."
A planet with no standing can only help itself.
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