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Houses and theatre, film, auditions
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astromythtarotbyjc



Joined: 29 Sep 2019
Posts: 55
Location: Boston

Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Well, well, I take this to mean you disagree with my approach, that's OK, there is no need to sound like I have wasted your time by being so unhelpful."


lol, sorry, thank you. I was just really annoyed at the time. I had asked other forums, and everyone just keep giving reasons, and hypothesis without mentioning the house like I was asking.

I'm too new in understanding horary to use the methold you're suggesting. Just understood collection/translation of light a couple of days ago.
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johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1579

Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

astromythtarotbyjc wrote:
I had asked other forums, and everyone just keep giving reasons, and hypothesis without mentioning the house like I was asking.

I'm too new in understanding horary to use the methold you're suggesting. Just understood collection/translation of light a couple of days ago.


AMT, thank you that you have answered to my request posting the data
and chart of your question.

But obviously you missed that my answer (and short enogh) to your
question was: the 10th house.

To get the role, you were not bargaining with your couterpart on an equal
level, but you had to stand and pass an audition, that is essentially no
other thing than a test or a job interview.

Those who supervise the audition and judge it and rate you, are part of
the firm or theatre the directors of which decide on your engagement to
play that part.

So your significators are Mars and possibly the Moon,
the theatre and its directors and 'testing' staff is signified by Saturn.

Mars and Saturn are not joined directly, but the Moon, strong in her own
house, has just received the light of Mars by sextile and is on her way to
translate it to the theatre's Saturn (translation of light).

Following the teachings of Lilly, the Moon is void of course, because she is
not yet applying to the opposition of Saturn; but because of her position in
Cancer the matter is not as difficult or even as hopeless as could be
feared. And that her being void is ending in some three degrees and that
her perfecting the translation of light between the main-significators is
without any prohibition, all this has given a yes to your question: you've
got the role.
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Ouranos



Joined: 28 Mar 2020
Posts: 516

Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Johannes,
Moon - Saturn distance 14 degrees 42

Moiety
Deb Houlding says that 'However, I will acknowledge an aspect within the range of the wider orbs if the planetary contact is of great significance to the chart and the planets are strong by angularity or other fortifying factors.'
Moon/Saturn 11 d 15 which can be stretched to 14 d 42...ish
Moon/Mercury 9 d 30
Technically there is a prohibition between Moon and Saturn by Mercury.

But that's a long shot! Not sure I would have called this one.
Yet, anything that can be replicated is worth looking at.

Cheers!
Ouranos

** Saturn turns Direct Oct 11th **
Which should move the project forward.. or not
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astromythtarotbyjc



Joined: 29 Sep 2019
Posts: 55
Location: Boston

Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="johannes susato"]

But obviously you missed that my answer (and short enogh) to your
question was: the 10th house.



But you see the 7th house was also used, because when I looked at the chart the 10th didn't have any aspect and I knew that this was not yet my career...and for me, I don't understand how looking at the planets movements ahead of time is helpful especially by the time those planets move to positive or negative aspect, it's no longer based on the time I asked the question-which I think is really important.
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Carol



Joined: 12 Dec 2008
Posts: 218

Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="astromythtarotbyjc"]
johannes susato wrote:


But obviously you missed that my answer (and short enogh) to your
question was: the 10th house.



But you see the 7th house was also used, because when I looked at the chart the 10th didn't have any aspect and I knew that this was not yet my career...and for me, I don't understand how looking at the planets movements ahead of time is helpful especially by the time those planets move to positive or negative aspect, it's no longer based on the time I asked the question-which I think is really important.


I also felt like the 10th house was definitely the correct house to use but was confused that there was no aspect between its ruler Saturn and the querent's significators, Mars and Moon, and yet she got the part.

I think what explains things is Mercury's trine to Saturn. As Ouranos noted earlier: "Mercury in 7th dispositor of MarsL1 in trine to SaturnL10 is saying Yes to your audition. Being Retrograde... with a delay."

There is also tremendous mutual reception between Mercury and Saturn, and with Mercury coming from the querent's 3rd house, it seems that those deciding who gets the role are super impressed with the querent's general communication style and manner beyond the actual audition/performance, even though that is strong too (Ruler of 5th/Moon in Cancer and in the 5th).

Also, with Mercury in Libra in the 7th house of partnerships and in Saturn's exaltation, I think this may show that those deciding who to pick are very happy with the equal partnership relationship that the querent presents, so much so that they want to be her friends as well as give her the role (Saturn in 11th house of friends, hopes & wishes).

So that's how I see the 7th house figuring into the equation, even though it may just be a wild irresponsible guess, lol.
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johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1579

Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carol wrote:
I also felt like the 10th house was definitely the correct house to use but was confused that there was no aspect between its ruler Saturn and the querent's significators, Mars and Moon, and yet she got the part.

A connection between the main significators is given by the Moon's trans-
lation of their light, as I said earlier.

The Moon is void of course, but in his house of Cancer giving still hopes in
the matter (Lilly). Furthermore she is on the cusp of the 5th, the house of
theatre and playing parts.

And as she is here also the lady of the 4th, signifying the source of the
querent (or his family, because of his name we may assume it is finally
the Netherlands), the Moon might represent here in a wider sense the
compatriot's helping hand in the matter, mentioned by the querent.

The orb of about some three degrees more than the moietiy of both orbs
of Mars and Saturn cannot be the problem here, because first we have the
positive answer to the question, and furthermore there are Lilly's
examples of "a vacuo" for this kind of constellations.

I would stick to the principle, that there must be a connection between the
significators and that these significators cannot be replaced by their dispo-
sitors (here Mercury for Mars).

But Carol's text could give some hints, why Mercury is not prohibiting the
perfection of the translation, that same green Mercury that I, other than
Ouranos, had overseen.

The prohibition, i.e. whether it actually prohibits or not, is one of the most
interesting problems in horary, and one of the most disregarded in the
literature. I would appreciate dissenting opinons and reasons. Could any-
one provide and quotations, please?
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Ouranos



Joined: 28 Mar 2020
Posts: 516

Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting Johannes!

Here is a link on VOC by Tony Louis discussing the 4 ways to consider VOC
https://tonylouis.wordpress.com/2013/10/28/will-the-real-void-of-course-moon-please-stand-up/

1. The modern definition, popularized by Al Morrison, which defines the VOC Moon as perfecting no aspects before leaving its current sign.
2. Lilly's "when it is not within orb of applying to another planet by major aspect, regardless of where the Moon lies in its current sign. (Lilly used an orb of 12.5 degrees for the Moon.)
3. The original Hellenistic definition. According the Chris Brennan, the original Hellenistic definition is that the VOC Moon does not perfect a major aspect within the next 30 degrees regardless of sign boundaries (as opposed to within a 30-degree sign).
4. Antiochus of Athens defines the Moon as being void of course when it finds itself failing to make application by conjunction or aspect, irrespective of sign boundaries, to any other planet for a period of a day an a night (i.e, 24 hours or an arc of about 13 degrees, which is the average daily motion of the moon)

"The definition of a void of course Moon used by Antiochus is essentially the one adopted by Lilly. Like Antiochus, Lilly allows the Moon’s light to cross a sign boundary and enter into application by aspect to a planet on the other side."
In this chart, maybe we could consider the Moon applying by sextile to Mercury and then trining Saturn as a good omen in the spirit of Antiochus and Lilly. Or is it the 30 degrees as used by Chris Brennan?

Interesting discussion guys!
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johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1579

Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ouranos,

could someone name the authors who were the first to make the
sign boundaries a sacred cow?

In my first post I made clear that I follow Lilly's teachings as to the void of
course Moon. And other than the authors of your quotes say, the void of
course is a constellation that applys for all lights and planets.

Can you rely on any rule that the significator of the querent or of the
quesited could be replaced by his dispositor, as you do replacing Mars by
Mercury?

The only proper way, because relying on the common rules, that I see for
the Yes to this question, is the translation of the ligt between Mars and
Saturn by the 'patriotic' Moon, as described above.
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Ouranos



Joined: 28 Mar 2020
Posts: 516

Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Can you rely on any rule that the significator of the querent or of the
quesited could be replaced by his dispositor, as you do replacing Mars by
Mercury?

It's called a reception
Mars in Rulership, Exaltation and Face of Mercury!

Mars is being welcomed by Mercury who says "Please remove your cap for the singing of the national anthem!
Smile
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AmeliaS



Joined: 07 Apr 2020
Posts: 257

Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deleted. Double entries.

Last edited by AmeliaS on Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:04 pm; edited 2 times in total
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AmeliaS



Joined: 07 Apr 2020
Posts: 257

Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

astromythtarotbyjc wrote:


lol, sorry, thank you. I was just really annoyed at the time. I had asked other forums, and everyone just keep giving reasons, and hypothesis without mentioning the house like I was asking.


Perhaps this is because people feel, as many experienced horary students do, that insisting on using one house would complicate things for you instead of simplifying them, and you would like things to be as straightforward and simple as possible as a beginner. Just look at what happened on this thread. One of us said 7, one of us would mention 10, and you just ended up more confused, and to be honest I kind of foresaw that. Still, maybe I could have said, "Normally it's 7 or 10, but..." before I tried showing you another perspective. Smile And I understand you mightn't feel comfortable with this approach just yet. Nobody is comfortable with all approaches.

Best of luck with your artistic pursuits!
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