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Divorce?
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kris522



Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 25
Location: Chicago

Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:48 pm    Post subject: Divorce? Reply with quote

How would I ask if someone is getting a divorce? Where do I look? If I'm asking for them, are they represented by the 7th house, and if so, which house represents the divorce? Their 9th? And lastly, are good aspects a yes, or are good aspects a reprieve?!

Meaning if I ask "Will so and so get a divorce?" and I get a positive chart, does that confirm it, as in Yes, they will get a divorce?

Kind of a confusing question! Confused
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granny_skot



Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 1639
Location: California, USA

Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are asking then you are probably using "so and so" as the querrant, so 1st is "so and so" and 7th is spouse. start with the simple things first, they can often be most direct.

are the two planets coming together, or separating? are they in sextile or trine or are they square or opposition? where is the moon in relation? etc... and date, time and location chart drawn would be helpful.

Granny
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kris522



Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 25
Location: Chicago

Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Granny, I haven't cast the chart yet, b/c I didn't know which house actually represented divorce and I'm too curious (Gemini!!) to draw it up and not be able to even know where to begin!

So, use the first house for who I'm asking on behalf of? Then just note the aspects between the first house significator and the 7th? Doesn't one of the houses specifically represent divorce? I might be making that up.... Lala Happy

Thanks for helping!
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Tom
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Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 3507
Location: New Jersey, USA

Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mars is the planet that traditional astrology associates with divorce. The 7th is the house of the partner. The Greeks used the 10th as the house of marriage. I'd look to see what is going on between the rulers of houses one and seven. For example, are they separating or about to change signs or houses?

The ruler of the part of marriage might play a role as well as the Arabic part of divorce.

Hope this helps.

Tom
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kris522



Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 25
Location: Chicago

Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Tom! I'll look at see what the rulers of the 1st, 7th and 10th are doing.

If I asked, "Will x and y get a divorce?" are good aspects a yes, or are good aspects favorable for the union?

Lastly, how do you figure out the Part of Marriage and the Part of divorce?

Thanks!
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Tom
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Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 3507
Location: New Jersey, USA

Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

The Arabic parts can be as elusive as everything else in astrology. The formulae I'm giving below are taken from Solar Fire. I'm on vacation and don't have reference works with me. In other words sometimes there are more than one formula for the various parts.

Marriage: ASC + 7th cusp - Venus.

Solar Fire also gives as a Hellenistic formula: ASC + Venus - Jupiter.

SF does not list a part of Divorce but I know there is one. John Frawley mentions it in one of his books, I think The Real Astrology. It might be ASC + 7 - Saturn.

Hope this helps.

Tom
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granny_skot



Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 1639
Location: California, USA

Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"so use the first for who I'm asking on behalf of?"

1st is querrant, moon is the secondary planet for the quarent and 7th is the querants spouse or enemy..

Granny
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Moondance7



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 115

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting thread. How does analysis change if you are asking for yourself? Not divorce for yourself, but you as the querent? Thanks Lala Happy
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horarcek



Joined: 24 Jul 2005
Posts: 151
Location: Slovenia

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SF does not list a part of Divorce but I know there is one. John Frawley mentions it in one of his books, I think The Real Astrology. It might be ASC + 7 - Saturn.

Hope this helps.

Tom[/color][/quote]

Frawley in The Horary Textbook: Part of Divorce is Asc + Desc - Mars.
I don`t know on which page is this in English version of THT, in Serbian it is on page 112.
Frawley recommends using this part when divorce is a real option.

Best wishes
Trojan
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Moondance7



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 115

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, H. The formula will help in future. Very Happy
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Taurus7



Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts: 599

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom:
Quote:
The 7th is the house of the partner. The Greeks used the 10th as the house of marriage. I'd look to see what is going on between the rulers of houses one and seven.

She is asking about someone else. Therefore, wouldn't we need to turn the chart and the 1st house would be turned for whatever her relationship is with the person that she is asking about?
e.g. if she is asking if her friend will get a divorce, the first would become be the 11th. Then we would look for relationships between the 11th, and the 7th and 10th from the 11th. Yes?
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Sue



Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 945
Location: Australia

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If she is enquiring about asking on behalf of someone else, that is, she is the astrologer, the other person is the querent then, as usual, the querent gets the 1st house. There is no need for turned houses. It is not very clear whether she wants to ask about another couple, neither of whom are the querent, or whether one of the couple is asking.
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Moondance7



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 115

Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you all are referring to me, I was asking on my own behalf about the marriage of an ex-lover. There- does that complicate it even more?
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ashwsh



Joined: 16 Mar 2021
Posts: 33

Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:41 pm    Post subject: More Clarity Reply with quote

For the sake of clarity, if the spouse who wants a divorce should consider good aspects like trine/sextile to be as yes or no to their question? I am wondering how would it be checked in the chart.
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AmeliaS



Joined: 07 Apr 2020
Posts: 267

Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ashwsh wrote:
For the sake of clarity, if the spouse who wants a divorce should consider good aspects like trine/sextile to be as yes or no to their question? I am wondering how would it be checked in the chart.


Bonatti has answered such questions as "Whether or not a servant may be freed from servitude" (see Liber Astronomiae, part 4). He considered a good aspect with the MC Lord or the Sun (both significators of masters) a good sign, because the master would agree to give the servant (slave) what he wanted, which was to go free.

If we agree with this, then we say that when a Querent wants a divorce, their significators being friendly with the Descendant Lord or even other planets are likely to be fortunate. The 10th house, for example, could represent the authorities or courts, and marriage is a legal matter. If the authorities sympathise with the Querent's cause, the divorce should come easy.

It's very tricky, cause we all know in decumbiture charts the last thing we want is a good aspect with good mutual reception between Lord 8 and the Querent! But I do think an estranged/unwanted spouse quite different from disease or death. You can't reason with disease or death, either they come and wreak havoc or they don't exist. But people are different. And Bonatti thinks a good aspect with the person, helps forge some agreement. I must confess that I have little experience with divorce charts, so it's just an attempt at finding some logic.

Amelia


Last edited by AmeliaS on Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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