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4 by SaturnReturn
Saturn in Virgo?

That sounds like a challenge to the staus quo. Virgo is analytical and precise, perfect for things like counting votes. Saturn in Virgo presents a quite detailed structure, like an old grandfather clock that when opened, reveals thousands of gears and weights, each perfect and precise. A clock that keeps perfect time, for eternity if neccessary.

With an opposition to Uranus, I can only think...sledgehammer? When the planet of rebellion stares down the planet of structure there are sure to be fireworks. I dare say a terrorist attack?

It would be interesting to see how it corresponds to the chart of the USA.
July 4th, 1776 might give us some answers. I know there is speculation on when the US was born, but the Decleration of Independance seems symbolic enough of the first breath of life of this country as well as cutting the cord from "Mother England". The US may have gone through many changes but this day was truly the formal, concrete inception of America.
Of course we would need a time...

Sounds ominous...we'll see what happens! :D

5 by SaturnReturn
I just checked out the transits and it is an exact opposition, but only one of three. Uranus is retrograde and backing into saturn, on the second opposition, on 4 February 09', Saturn has gone retrograde back to meet Uranus, who has gone direct. The third opposition is on 14 September 09', when Saturn has gone direct again, and Uranus has turned around to back into him.

So, Bush gets the idea to declare himself King on the first pass, establishes himself as "Almighty, Benevolent and Fearless Leader" on the second pass, and we overthrow him on the third pass. Sounds exciting!

:)

edit: Actually there are two more oppostions, with Saturn and Uranus alternately backing into eachother. 26 April 10', and 26 July 10'. Aftert that Saturn should progress through Libra while Uranus vacillates over the cusp of Aries. Ah, and the final oppostition is between Uranus in Aries(The direct action of Aries rather than the passivity or subversity of Picses, uh-oh) and Saturn in Libra(Diplomacy, The UN?).

And it will all have its roots with this initial opposition on 4 Nov 08'. Is this the first opposition?

This could be interesting. :brows

Saturn / Uranus

6 by Dave of Maryland
One would imagine Saturn to be government, and Uranus to be the masses.

Saturn in Virgo would be oppresssive detail, or detail that can no longer be managed, coming from the government.

Uranus, opposing from Pisces might be transcendental revolt, except that Pisces is rarely that much awake. So could be a case of massive deafness, which would only spur Saturn on to oppress ever harder, until Uranus finally wakes up & snaps. All those millions & zillions of individual droplets do eventually come together in Pisces & for one single instant in time, form a startlingly coherent mass. Given the watery nature, it might be a powerful emotional backlash.

Rob Hand, in Planets in Transit, has nothing nice to say about either viewpoint, Saturn opposing Uranus, or Uranus opposing Saturn.

The opposition will be in play for years. The worst of it, that I have seen, is in July - August 2010, when the opposition marches across the 0 degrees Aries / Libra axis, the most critical pair of degrees of all. Whereupon one or both are hit, in quick succession, by Jupiter, Mars & Venus, either by conjunction, or opposition. Uranus in Aries will then be fully awake. It will do what it wants & will brook no opposition.

Isn't it fun to live in times that our descendants will study in their history books!
www.AstroAmerica.com
Better books make better astrologers. Treat yourself!

7 by ###
One would imagine Saturn to be government, and Uranus to be the masses.
I assume I?m invited to consider myself included under 'one' and to give my opinion! :)

I?m not so comfortable with Uranus as 'the masses'. That seems too linked with ideas of Aquarius and the 11th house as significators of society and groups of people ? with a bit of hyperbole: the masses. The Moon is actually more representative of the people as a common body. I see Uranus as simply an indicator of sudden and severe disruption, an abrupt change of the status quo or the present state. The masses ? the people ? could be the agent of such change, but not necessarily. The status quo, establishment, societal structure ? government ? of Saturn could just as likely fracture, split, shatter, and blow up from within. The unkempt masses don?t need to force their way into the government offices to cause the destruction, the workers who show up daily to those offices could just as likely be the agents of Uranus.

8 by Dave of Maryland
Hello Kirk,
I?m not so comfortable with Uranus as 'the masses'.
I'm not either, but I needed something to make my analogy work. Clearly something is opposed to something else, and as they're big planets, they must be big opposing somethings.

If we take Saturn as Law & Uranus as prisoners, then we can play them out as 6th house / 12th house, with the 12th as prisoners. We could postulate mass arrests & prison camps. But this no longer works once Uranus enters Aries.

H.S. Green says,

Saturn in bad aspect with Uranus: This brings trouble upon the Monarch, Government, and the ruling power in general in the country. National politics are apt to become very disturbed and involved; great changes are advocated, important reforms attempted or suggested, but they are either successfully resisted or achieved with difficulty after long resistance. Troubles & disasters beset the Government, which may lose ground, be defeated or have to resign. [Green is English, the book dates from 1912-ish] Changes in the Cabinet may take place; death or resignation of members; disaffection within the parties; death of some statesman, of prominent personages in the country, or even of the Monarch or some Royalty, if other testimonies occur. A General Election may take place, or large reforms be advocated affecting Parliament, elections, civic or other Councils, the administration of the country, or even the Monarch; but in any case there will be much opposition, delay, and difficulty. In countries where the Monarch is also the real ruler, most of the trouble may center round him. (pgs. 61-62)

Which is lot.

Dave
www.AstroAmerica.com
Better books make better astrologers. Treat yourself!

10 by SaturnReturn
Uranus seems to me to be more of a primal force of revolutionary change, and in picses it could manifest itself in a collective, trancendental way, but not overtly, as Dave put it before. Saturn represents structure. Uranus - change. It quite simply means a change to the structure. However, pinpointing it will be the problem. Saturn and Uranus have opposed eachother before this moment, some things were affected, and some weren't. The key is to find out what will be affected by this, although the election falling on the exact opposition does seem to add some correlation to american political structure with the celestial event, so we should keep our eyes open.

I agree with Dave that the climax will come with Aries/Libra, where the collective ideas of pisces that have built up are finally released. Aries aren't known for subtlety.

Does anyone know if this is the first opposition? Maybe we can find the root.
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