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Regiomontanus and Placidus
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GR



Joined: 14 May 2005
Posts: 451
Location: USA

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aquirata wrote:
Gabe,

Quote:
I wonder how hard it would be to hunt down that J.D. North book

The book is listed but not available at Amazon, and, according to FetchBook, AbeBooks used to have a couple of copies available a few weeks ago. BookFinder couldn't locate any copies. May also be available from the Warburg Institute or the author.


OK, it'll be something to think about.

Quote:

Quote:
Part of my argument here would be "Does it need to be rational?"

No, it doesn't in general. For me, it does.


Maybe you need to examine that? Please don't take this as a slam, because I'm not intending to give offense, and I apologize in advance if you take it badly.

Quote:

Quote:
I also think we are running into trouble when we think of astrology as a science, like chemistry or physics is a science. It is certainly not a modern science, since there is no plausible material causation. There are, of course, other levels of causation, but they are not in the purview of modern science. I'm not sure we can get the same kind of statistically verifiable data as in these sciences because of this.

Well, this is a big subject, but I do disagree with you here. I am personally conducting the kind of statistical research you speak of, and the evidence is unquestionably there. The first phase of research in a program of about 2,400 phases is complete, and I am writing the article for publication. The abstract and intro are done, working on the rest at present. This particular work is not about the houses by the way.


I do remember that you posted on that subject on Skyscript before. My concern would be that any statistical presentation without the presence of a defining material cause will not be taken seriously by most if not all scientists, no matter the robustness of the study. Anyway, we will get to see it when you finally get it out. Good luck.
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aquirata



Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 157
Location: Canada

Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Gabe,

Quote:
Maybe you need to examine that?

Yes of course, from a personal point of view. As I have always said, I'm not an astrologer, just a student in astrology. Lots of room to grow. Smile

Quote:
My concern would be that any statistical presentation without the presence of a defining material cause will not be taken seriously by most if not all scientists, no matter the robustness of the study.

Has happened before, certainly, and could happen again. Let me, however, quote Carl Sagan here, who, as an eminent astronomer and a non-believer in astrology, has some authority on the subject:

"That we can think of no mechanism for astrology is relevant but unconvincing. No mechanism was known, for example, for continental drift when it was proposed by Wegener. Nevertheless, we see that Wegener was right, and those who objected on the grounds of unavailable mechanism were wrong." (From his letter to the Humanist, in response to the 'Objections to Astrology' statement, Sep/Oct 1975)

Quote:
Anyway, we will get to see it when you finally get it out. Good luck.

Thanks, and I hope to finish the article soon now. Done with the Procedures section, working on Results. Discussion should be a breeze, and it's pretty well complete at that time. So 2 weeks?
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hadrisnus



Joined: 29 May 2009
Posts: 3

Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:10 pm    Post subject: Krusinski house system Reply with quote

Do you know any text about the Krusinski house system, that is not in czech? Maybe some translations of Milan Píša.
I'm interested to see his interpretation to Manilius.
Thanks
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Eddy



Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 922
Location: Netherlands

Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Krusinski house system Reply with quote

hadrisnus wrote:
Do you know any text about the Krusinski house system, that is not in czech? Maybe some translations of Milan Píša.
I'm interested to see his interpretation to Manilius.
Thanks

Here's a very brief explanation of this house system and its history.
http://www.astro.com/swisseph/swisseph.htm#_Toc226863993
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hadrisnus



Joined: 29 May 2009
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Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Krusinski house system Reply with quote

Eddy wrote:
Here's a very brief explanation of this house system and its history.
http://www.astro.com/swisseph/swisseph.htm#_Toc226863993

Indeed, a very brief one Very Happy
The passage in Manilius that discusses the eight houses is a bit intriging and I was wandering how was it interpreted to end up in a system of twelve
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GR



Joined: 14 May 2005
Posts: 451
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Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Krusinski house system Reply with quote

hadrisnus wrote:

The passage in Manilius that discusses the eight houses is a bit intriging and I was wandering how was it interpreted to end up in a system of twelve


In the Antiochus material (translation available here http://www.projecthindsight.com/), he mentions both a twelve topic and an eight topic system(with the topics shown by the 8 signs starting at the rising sign). I forget off hand, but one is coming from Hermes and the other from Nechepso(?), and the topics are mostly different for each system. I don't have the book on hand, so any specific references to the CCAG will have to wait until later.
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Eddy



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Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to some the concept of the 8 houses system is an erroneous interpretation in the beginning of the 20th century. Here's an article of Bill Johnston about this: http://www.snowcrest.net/sunrise/aoctobj.htm
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Mark
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Joined: 30 Sep 2005
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Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
According to some the concept of the 8 houses system is an erroneous interpretation in the beginning of the 20th century. Here's an article of Bill Johnston about this:


Very interesting. However, from my initial reading that doesn't appear the view taken by Robert Schmidt in his new translation of Antiochus. The new Project Hindsight translation series The Astrological Record of the Early Sages (aka “TARES”) has a translation of the “Introductory Matters” attributed to Antiochus.

I dont have my copy to hand right now but I will post on this when I get a chance.


Mark
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mattG



Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 345
Location: Greenwich UK

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is also an article on Patrice Guinard's site on the eight house system called The Dominion. You can find it on Skyscript Links. I rather like the idea of the last house being Death. Does have a ring of finality about it. Sad

Matt
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yuzuru



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
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Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, I would have to ask Steven, but he wrote something about the "8 house system" is based on very shaken evidence.

Of course, he wrote that many years ago, he may have changed his mind
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GR



Joined: 14 May 2005
Posts: 451
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Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the erroneous element of the 8 topic system was the idea, probably due to Fagan and others, that:

    1) the topics where assigned against the order of the signs
    2) the ecliptic was itself divided by into 8 equal parts


Looking at Bill Johnston's article it seems to match what Antiochus and Bob is saying (which makes sense as Bill is part of Project Hindsight) is saying, apparently there is a misinterpolation of oktotopos into oktotropos between various sources.

A speculation has come upon me, if anybody would like to see if there appears any commonality between the 8 topic system and the Ptolemaic Questions?
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Mark
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Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GR Wrote:
Quote:
In the Antiochus material (translation available here http://www.projecthindsight.com/), he mentions both a twelve topic and an eight topic system(with the topics shown by the 8 signs starting at the rising sign). I forget off hand, but one is coming from Hermes and the other from Nechepso(?), and the topics are mostly different for each system. I don't have the book on hand, so any specific references to the CCAG will have to wait until later.


Here is Robert Schmidt on this issue in his initial comments on the Introductory Matters of Antiochus:

Quote:
Paragraphs 24 and 25 give a brief statement of the meanings assigned to each of the topical places ( ‘’houses’’) . It is clear from the text that the whole-sign ‘houses’’ is meant here. What is interesting is that there are two different systems presented. The first is a twelve-topic system in which each of the twelve places is assigned meanings. The second is an eight-topic system in which only the first eight places are used. It is only in the eight topic system that we find a correlation with members of the native’s family. It is reasonable to assume that each of these two systems has its own rationale, which must be investigated in future volumes. The list of meanings found in later Hellenistic texts are evidently a conflation of the meanings of these two different systems.


Later in his commentary on ''The Eight -Topic System of Places'' he states:

Quote:
'Some scholars have tried to argue that the eight topic system originated from the bisection of the four mundane quadrants, resulting in eight places, but there is certainly no evidence for that conjecture in the present text.''

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Vindex



Joined: 10 Jan 2009
Posts: 53

Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are talking a lot about Placidus and Regiomontaneus system.

My practice shows that Koch can be very usefule. In some chart you simply can t find events using Placidus.

I ll give you example. My 3 house starts in Aries, with Jupiter in Aries. Mars goes to solar eclipse 0 South Node.

my brother should die, (Jupiter - male planet, Aries - male sign), because Mars kills him from my 8 house on exact point of solar eclipse.

The truth is that i don t have a brother, i have sister.

In second example i have friend with planets in 3 house in Pisces - he doesent have brother or sister, he is only one.

So i think that Koch system shouldnt be ignored
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gothic5



Joined: 09 Jun 2014
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Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:38 pm    Post subject: Regiomontanus and Morinus program Reply with quote

I use the Morinus program and had a question about the Zenith Distance in Regiomontanus settings.(ZD) I thought Zenith Distance was 90- Altitude although I know a lot of things change in Regio system.Just asking if anyone can explain how Zenith Distance is found in the Morinus astrology program.thanks -Harold
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