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"Is X the baby's father?"

 
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Pete



Joined: 29 Apr 2004
Posts: 301
Location: Kinnelon, New Jersey, USA

Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 1:36 pm    Post subject: "Is X the baby's father?" Reply with quote

Hi Smile
yesterday a friend sent me a text message asking for a horary. She wanted to know if her ex-partner is the father of her baby. I'm wary of the Saturnine nature of the 7th house ( astrologer -me ), with Neptune on the cusp. With that in mind, I thought I'd seek the help of you fine people in unravelling the message of the chart.

Here's the data for it:

"Is X the baby's father?"
June 8th 2004
09.53 am
West Kirby, England.
53N22' 03W10

Asc: Leo 16* 59'
Moon: Aquarius 29* 33'

The querent: Leo/Sun
The child: Sagittarius/Jupiter. (Moon?)
The partner: Aquarius/Saturn. Neptune.

The first thing that struck me was the void-of-course Moon in the 7th, suggesting that this business shall not go "handsomely forward", according to Lilly. Is the Moon the natural significator of babies, and if so, does its position in the 7th constitute "emplacement"? 'The baby belongs to the partner'?.
But wait ~ should I be looking for some connection via reception between either the sig of the 5th or the Moon, and Saturn? If so it would have to be a strong one and yes ~ there it is: the Moon and Saturn are in Mutual Reception: that's almost as good as a blood-tie, imo, *if* we can take the Moon as the baby. Can we? There is no reception between Saturn, lord of 7th, and Jupiter, lord of 5th, which appears to suggest no connection, but they were in aspect by sextile last month. However, that isn't what I'm looking for; I'm looking for a common thread, such as the one between Saturn and the Moon. Everything hinges on allowing the Moon for the baby. ( By Regio' house system, the Moon has dignity by face at the 5th cusp ).

Any thoughts on this one?
Cheers...
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pat557



Joined: 26 Oct 2003
Posts: 40
Location: California USA

Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

G-d, Is this question all too familiar for me! Sick at first glance,and I'm in a hurry today, I'd say the key is the 11th house,Mercury. the question is whether "X" (Saturn) is the Father. Mercury is R11-his 5th. check out Lilly-Page 318 CA."whether the child conceived is the sonne of him who is reputed his Father" Check that out.(thanks TOM) I Can't wait to get back to this chart...Gotta go!
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Pete



Joined: 29 Apr 2004
Posts: 301
Location: Kinnelon, New Jersey, USA

Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
check out Lilly-Page 318 CA."whether the child conceived is the sonne of him who is reputed his Father" Check that out.(


Thanks for passing on the reference, Pat. I dunno how I missed that one!
I'll check it out later Smile

Cheers....
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Sharon



Joined: 09 Jun 2004
Posts: 2
Location: St. Paul Minnesota

Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 9:17 pm    Post subject: Is X baby's father? Reply with quote

I'm inclined to look at the Sun and Moon as representing Mother in this chart. But notice Venus in same degree as Sun and Ascendant. Is the child a girl? The child (fifth house) is ruled by Jupiter in second, which is sextile Saturn, ruler of the seventh. I think the Moon's last aspect was to Pluto in the fifth, or if you prefer, to Mars in the twelfth. While it may not apply, I think it is interesting that Mars and Saturn are both in Cancer, and half of the pair is hiding in the twelfth. Mars is ruler of the tenth, Venus (the child and Mom?) rules the fourth, with Scorpio intercepted there. I also noted that Jupiter is in the degree of the nodes, and Ivy Jacobson says of this, "Any planet or angle in the same degree as the Nodes points to a catastrophe. . ." The nodes are in the houses of the parents (fourth and tenth). Finally, Saturn is in the Moon's sign, Cancer, which pulls that energy to the seventh house. I think the evidence points to Saturn representing the father.
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Pete



Joined: 29 Apr 2004
Posts: 301
Location: Kinnelon, New Jersey, USA

Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Is the child a girl?


Hi Sharon, yes the child is a girl.

Quote:
The child (fifth house) is ruled by Jupiter in second, which is sextile Saturn, ruler of the seventh.


I noticed that, and the fact that Saturn exalts Jupiter, but I'm wondering if that's enough to point to a definite 'yes', and I'm not sure it is.

Quote:
I think the evidence points to Saturn representing the father.


Well there's the trine from the Sun ( querent ) to the 7th cusp ( 'X' ),
as well as a close connection by antiscion and parallel between
Sun and Saturn, so my guess is that the mother and father are friendly
towards each other. And of course the fact that Saturn is in the house
of 'partner's children' and connects with the Sun points tentatively to
the conclusion that they share a child. I'm just frustrated that the
ruler of the 5th house doesn't join up with them, ( except through the sextile from Jupiter to Saturn ), but then maybe my frustration is a reflection on me as the astrologer ( 7th house ) also being ruled by Saturn! :-)

Cheers...
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Sharon



Joined: 09 Jun 2004
Posts: 2
Location: St. Paul Minnesota

Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do hope you post a final answer when (or if) it is known. I can appreciate your hesitancy to give a definite answer in this situation. There's always DNA.

Sharon
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Pete



Joined: 29 Apr 2004
Posts: 301
Location: Kinnelon, New Jersey, USA

Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll certainly let you know, should the truth ever come to light.
One final thought on this, which came to me recently:
When I first examined this chart, I was looking specifically for a connection, a link ( actually a *mutual* link) between Saturn ~ 'Mr X' ~ and Jupiter ~ ruler of the 5th house and therefore the child. What I found is that Saturn in Cancer is in the sign of Jupiter's exaltation and therefore the partner ~ 'Mr X' ~ "exalts" the child.
However Jupiter is in none of the dignities of Saturn, which had me scratching my head. Recently however, it dawned on me that Jupiter in Virgo is in the triplicity, terms and face of Venus, who in her turn is in the triplicity of Saturn and in the 11th house of "partner's children".
So ~ in a roundabout kind of way there *is* a mutual link between Jupiter and Saturn, albeit a convoluted one, which I suppose one would expect when there is no clear-cut recognition of the identity of the father!

Cheers...
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