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Anyway it`s still confusing. Maybe this confusion is due to the usage of the words LEFT and RIGHT.

There is one good book about traditional astrology in German language which is written by Rafael Gil Brand (Lehrbuch der klassischen Astrologie, 424 pages). When he explains left and right aspects he says that the planet which is behind another one in the Zodiac, is in the right aspect of this other planet. E.g. Sun in Sag. and Mars in Virgo would mean that Mars is in the right square of the Sun and thus is dominating the Sun. With the Sun in Sag. and Mars in Pieces, Mars would be in the left square of the Sun and thus the Sun would dominate Mars.

He advices to visualize that one of the aspecting planets is right on the ASC. In our example the Sun in Sag. would be on the ASC and Mars in Virgo would be above the Sun and thus be on the right side of the Sun.

With Mars in Pieces on the ASC the Sun in Sag. would now be on the right side of Mars and thus be in the rigth square of Mars. Mars at the same time would be in the left square of the Sun. The Sun would dominate Mars because Mars is on the left side of the Sun.

It is interesting that in his explanations he never says that a planet is casting a right/left aspect but that a planet is in the right/left aspect of another one.

With this definition of RIGHT and LEFT there would be no collision with the doctrine of a dominating planet in the 10th sign of this planet.

Now there is a new question: which definition of dexter/right and sinister/left is true and which is wrong?

Jogi

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Left and Right is difficult. I'll just pick up some quotes from Al Biruni, then we can expand our thoughts on the matter later:
Position Right and Left of Sun
Astronomers agree that all three higher planets form the time of conjunction to opposition, and both lower planets from conjunction on the retrograde to that on the direct course, and the moon form opposition to conjunction are to the right (west) of the sun, while the higher planets from opposition to conjunction, and the lower planets from conjunction on the direct to that on the retrograde course, and the moon from conjunction to opposition are on the left (east) of the sun.
Two Right and Two Left Hands
When a planet is in the cardo of midheaven and its sextile and quartile rays fall together above the earth, it is said to have two right hands, if these fall below the earth two left hands. The indications of the former are success and victory.
Note that in the second quotation the application of the terms of left and right hands does not refer to the term of sinister and dexter in the sence that we have been discussing them earlier throughout this thread.
Last edited by Andrew Bevan on Sun Oct 18, 2009 9:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Is it any wonder people get so confused about what ought to be something simple? Those translations (or the originals), frankly, suck. Pardon my French.

I still can't wrap my head around this, and I'm a "brain-worker" by profession, and someone who has been a student of astrology for 40 years. Unfortunately, the trend in explicating "traditional" astrology seems to be one of (unnecessarily?) obscure English. (This is not a criticism of you, Andrew).

And what is east or west "relative to" supposed to mean on a circle with arbitrary starting points? Just tell me something like "if the faster planet is in the hemisphere that rises before the slower, it is X; if on the other side, it is Y". Or something like that.

Frustrated,

- Ed

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Thanks, Ed. I'm a bit brain-impaired from struggling through Dariot today - I uant to ftart fpeling like this ;)

I always thought it was cos I was one of those people when the chiropractor wants to check my right wrist and I give it to him, he always tells me: no, your OTHER right wrist.

I can never wrap my head round it either. There's a short section in Dariot that I'll try to transcribe - maybe just to add to the muddle. Free translation by me, from Chapter 5


Among these aspects, as Julius Firmicus witnesses in the second book of his Mathematics, the 25th Chapter: the sextile, quadrate, and trine aspects are double, that is to say a right and a left, taking the right for the hind part and the left for the fore part, as if we would say that Aries has a right sextile unto Aquarius, and a left unto Gemini. Likewise Aries has a right trine to Sagittarius and a left [trine] to Leo.

In like sort you must judge of all the other aspects. And it is also to be noted that the right aspects are more forcible than the left.


It doesn't deal with which planet is doing what, but I think the left and right make sense in this one.

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Thanks, Olivia. So an aspect to what rises before is right and vice-versa. But which planet is considered the origin? I suppose that if one were directing aspects of promissors to significators, there is no confusion, since the promissor is the basis on which the sinister or dexter designation is based. But what about looking at an arbitrary aspect between two planets?

- Ed

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Ow ow ow - I'm sport-impaired as well as English-impaired!

Okay, a bit of indirect from Sahl, cos he's talking about besieging (as are we in another thread). I hope this isn't TOO indirect. It seems slightly clearer anyway. From Holden's translation, p 26:

...An example of which is when Mars is in the 10th degree of Cancer and Saturn in the 18th degree of Aries and the Moon is in the 13th degree of Libra...and the Moon is separated from a second square (dexter) aspect to Mars....

Dexter aspect then is from the faster planet. It can't be the applying planet, because the moon is separating from Mars, not going towards the square. And it matches up in direction with what Dariot says.

So, the right, or dexter, or stronger aspect is by a lighter planet in a later sign to a heavier planet in an earlier sign.

I think.

If someone can confirm and translate into proper English, I'd appreciate it.
Last edited by Olivia on Sun Oct 18, 2009 9:20 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Hi

The same is in Lilly:

"Observe the dexter aspect is more forcible then the sinister:this understand in other Columns, viz.that Dexter Aspects are contrary to the succession of Sign, Sinister in order as they follow one other."(W.Lilly, Chrsitian Astrology, London, 1659,p.109)


Note that first meaning of the word forcible is forced, violent.Second meaning of this word is strong, powerful.Same negative connotation of the greek word for dexter aspect we can find in Porphyry when he speak about ??????????? (striking with a ray)(D&F, p.202)