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A question about radicality of a question

 
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stanstar



Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 240
Location: Edinburgh Scotland

Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:37 am    Post subject: A question about radicality of a question Reply with quote

I have been asked a question from a lovely woman tonight, well yesterday evening really. She asked several questions which I rejected and asked her to be more specific. Eventually I got a question I felt to be more to the point and one which I was able to accept. She asked : Am I ever going to be in a family unit with me and Millie and be happy with my partner for ten years? She has a 5yr old daughter who she lives with alone. My chart is for Edinburgh, Scotland, 1.46am. It is not radical as Sag is rising and the hour is the Moon. Moon is in Gemini and Jupiter is in Taurus. Does this mean the question should not be answered?

Stan
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Tanit
Moderator


Joined: 01 Aug 2008
Posts: 1107
Location: California, USA

Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Does this mean the question should not be answered?


That is ultimately up to you to decide, as the astrologer. Considerations are meant to warn an astrologer but do not necessarily render you incapable of reading a chart or that the chart is "unreadable" (generally any question that is important to someone and asked sincerely is unlikely to be unreadable, in my opinion). Lilly says this about hour agreement:

Quote:
Christian Astrology, London, 1647, p.121.
All the ancients that have wrote of questions do give warning to the
astrologer, that before he deliver judgement he should consider whether the
figure is radical and capable of judgement. The question then shall be taken
for radical, or fit to be judged, when the lord of the hour at the time of
proposing the question, and erecting the figure, and the lord of the ascendant
or first house, are of one triplicity, or be one, or of the same nature.
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Pisces_girl



Joined: 14 May 2011
Posts: 26
Location: Europe

Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:08 pm    Post subject: Re: A question about radicality of a question Reply with quote

stanstar wrote:
She asked several questions which I rejected and asked her to be more specific. Eventually I got a question I felt to be more to the point and one which I was able to accept.


This is quite explanatory as to why the chart is not valid.

stanstar wrote:
She asked : Am I ever going to be in a family unit with me and Millie and be happy with my partner for ten years?



Never use the world "ever" when working with horary. Better say: "in the next three months", "in the next two years"...

Moon in Gemini is peregrine anyway.
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stanstar



Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 240
Location: Edinburgh Scotland

Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Tannit and Pisces Girl for your advice. I have now decided the chart should not be read.

Stan
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Clinton Soule



Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 471
Location: Reno, Nevada

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stanstar,

I realize with the Artist's lord in Pisces, and being Mercury, that communication is somewhat confusing in this horary. But I'm sure many of the great adept and generous astrologers via this Forum may become more involved in a horary if it is easier to understand the varibles such as the Time(AM or PM), which the artist has given accurately, the Date(that is vague), and the Place which is very accurate.

1:49 AM

2 / 29 / 2012

Edinburgh, Scottland


As either my computer does not allow me to post the horoscope via this Forum or I'm ignorant about how to post the wheel, I'll give this address for the map that one can 'click' upon to view:

http://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?;lang=e;gm=a1;nho2=;btyp=2;mth=gr;sday=6;smon=3;syr=2012;hsy=5;zod=;orbp=;rs=2;add=18;node=-Yn;pfday=-YP%201;fix=1;ast=&nhor=1&cid=pxvfilehJ1tq8-u1331077055

Quote:
It is not radical as Sag is rising and the hour is the Moon. Moon is in Gemini and Jupiter is in Taurus. Does this mean the question should not be answered?


As you can view unless there is some calculation varible I'm Not aware of, Luna is Not in Gemini but in the last degree of Taurus.

As Lilly borrowed from Guildo Bonatus the concept of Early and late degree risings, this can be noted on this particular horary:

http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~sueward/articles/astrologyof%20lilly.htm

Quote:
Considerations concerning Early and Late Degrees Rising on the Ascendant

Another Consideration concerns the degree on the Ascendant. Where 0, 1 or 2 degrees ascend, especially in signs of short ascension22, judgement should not be given. However, where the querent is very young and his or her physical description and moles, marks and scars23 match the Ascendant then judgment may still be given.

So, generally an early degree on the Ascendant shows that the question is premature. For example, a man asked if his wife was pregnant and the chart produced an early Ascendant. It showed that his question was premature, other factors led to the conclusion that his wife was not pregnant and that he should await the test results. It transpired that she was not pregnant.

Often an early Ascendant indicates the querent’s failure to put anything in motion. A question regarding winning a lottery would be premature if the querent had not yet bought a ticket. The same applies to a question of marriage when the querent has yet to form any kind of romantic relationship. In some cases there might not be an early Ascendant, and the chart will produce an answer such as that once the ticket is bought the querent will indeed win the lottery, but this is rare and might only arise in a question prefixed by "will I ever…?". A significant planet (a significator) or the Ascendant in early degrees could also be describing a new situation, or a recent change in circumstances.

When the early Ascendant cannot be explained in any of these ways, it becomes necessary to check the querent’s physical descriptions. A significant factor in the querent’s nativity might reflect such an early Ascendant. (‘Significant’ here means a natal connection with the horary which must be important and relevant to the question.) So, a similar rising sign and degree would be acceptable, or the early Ascendant found to be repeated on a relevant house cusp in the nativity is acceptable. For example, in the horary, "If I should purchase Master B. his houses."(See Figure B) Lilly says:

"The Signe ascending is Libra , the degree of the Signe is the same wherein j was in my Radix; I looked upon this as a good Omen in the first place. [On the same subject:] …and usually I have found that whoever propounds a Question to the Astrologer, I meane in their first Question, they have a Signe of the same Triplicity ascending in their Question, agreeable to the nature of the Ascendant in their Nativity, and many times the very self same Signe and degree is ascending upon the an Horary Question which was ascending in the Nativity."24


Yet in CA Lilly does occasionally answer Early Degree Asc.s.

And Bonatus to my memory said something about the 'Moon Can or May act when VOC in those speacial four signs' as follows:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?hl=en&gbv=2&gs_sm=12&gs_upl=1922l30125l0l31594l27l27l2l10l2l0l219l2283l0.13.2l15l0&spell=1&q=cache:pKZsZGIz8w8J:http://renaissance-astrology.blogspot.com/+%27Guido+bonatti+Moon+in+Taurus+Cancer+Pisces,+Sagittarius%27&ct=clnk

Quote:
What do our traditional sources say about the severity of affliction of the Moon being void of course? Lilly says when the Moon is void of course, "you shall seldom see a businesse goe handsomely forward when she is so." Christian Astrology at 113. Not exactly a total disaster. Lilly also notes that, "All manner of matters go hardly on (except the principal significators be very strong) when the Moon is void of course. Yet somewhat she performs if void of course and either in Taurus, Cancer, Sagittarius or Pisces" Christian Astrology at 122. Again hardly a searing indictment of the void of course Moon and with several significant exceptions.


I'm going to say that If this Tau Luna can or may act according to Bonatii the testimony of the unaspected lord of the 7th, Mercury, is saying 'no action' regarding the 7th house matter for the querant.

Yet as most know here on this forum, Bonatus would say' the querant is most likely testing the astrologer if not playing games upon the artist'. Sad

Clinton Garrett Soule
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