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Historical Argument for Sidereal Zodiac
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Michael Sternbach

Joined: 01 Mar 2014
Posts: 645
Location: Switzerland

Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Therese Hamilton wrote:
Paul wrote:
I think I may have simply misunderstood what it was you were saying - I wasn't sure if you were imagining a zodiac chiefly composed of stars but, almost by coincidence, started at 0 Aries (almost like a sidereal zodiac with an ayanamsha of 0) but I think I understand that you're just acknowledging that tropical or not, a sidereal component was always still important.

Yes, that is what I am saying: That tropical or not, a sidereal component was important in the time period when the equinox began to be used as the zero Aries point. And by 'sidereal component' I mean the visible stars and constellations. This is also what I mean by 'sky.' Thus in tropical reckoning the sky itself continues to change, and if the stars and constellations have any influence at all when using the tropical zodiac, then logically the signs have to continually reflect these changing meanings.

India has nicely eliminated what might have been a sky problem by aligning the nakshatras (star groups or lunar mansions) with the 12 signs themselves. It's really a very interesting study to see how specific star groups show through in the signs in the birth charts of individuals and mundane events.

Then we might ask, "What happens to these lunar mansion effects when using the tropical zodiac?" (I term 'nakshatras' lunar mansions because we now have an equal division of 27 mansions rather than specific stars that long ago were identified as the nakshatra stars. In some cases these are no longer aligned.) Obviously in the tropical zodiac we can no longer consider the actual (possible) effect of the stars and constellations that were originally aligned with signs measured from the equinox.

I do see this as a major problem for tropical astrology, so I can understand why David Roell stated that the tropical zodiac is limited to an earth-Sun relationship without any relationship to the sky (stars and constellations).

Traditionally, of course, India gives an overall interpretation to each of the lunar mansions. The question remains (assuming these interpretations have some validity) whether in practice there is a general influence extending throughout the longitude range of each mansion, or if only specific stars have effects. In this case the same stellar influence would show through in tropical charts, but would continue to shift with the centuries.

I don't have any problem with ascribing influences to specific fixed stars (as they do hold true in practice) while using a tropical zodiac. I don't see the archetype of a sign as having something to do with the stars that happen to be in that sector of the ecliptic currently. The stars and the (tropical) zodiac are simply two different frames of reference in my understanding.

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